Liverpool v Man U Player Ratings: The FA Cup Edition
by Bromantic on Jan 28, 2012 7:25 PM GMT
in 4. Player Ratings/MoM Polls
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What a fantastic game. Obviously it was made more fantastic by a victory, but the game as a great advertisement for soccer as a whole and showed how great the FA Cup still can be. For the neutrals out there, I'm sure this game was a delight to watch.
As a whole, I didn't care for the formation and it showed. Scholes bossed the midfield nearly the entire time he was on the pitch. The game turned and Liverpool got hold of the midfield once Scholes' ancient legs needed a rest. It will be massive to have Wee Jay Spearing back.
These two victories have capped a wonderful week for the Reds. This squad must surely be brimming with confidence now and hopefully can go on to start turning woodwork into goals and draws in victories in the push for 4th.
On another note, if you hadn't heard, the FA did away with the pregame handshakes in the QPR v Chelski game. I wonder if they'll do the same for our trip to Old Trafford.
The ratings after the jump and poll:
STARTERS:
Reina - 8 - One of the things that sets Reina apart from the rest is his pinpoint passing, especially off the punt. It was a fantastic pass to find Carroll's head. He gets the second assist for that (too bad this isn't hockey or that would mean something). Other than that, he made a few great plays as a sweeper-keeper and was there when needed. Not much he could do on the goal.
Kelly - 8 - He was phenomenal. Defensively he was a stud and he even provided some decent support for the attack. He completely shut down his side of the pitch. He has made a good case for his inclusion in the first 11 more often. I would like to see it as at RM if he can't be the RB.
Agger - 8 - Well taken header for the goal. Maybe he can give Carroll some lessons. The backline held United to very little in terms of chances. They just kept them passing around the box and cut out any attempts at through passing. This is why United had so much possession and so few chances.
Skrtel - 7 - Another great game from him as well. He and Agger are the real deal. They were commanding in and around the box.
Enrique - 6 - He was responsible for the first goal. However, it was an odd touch that took it back the other way for Valencia to smash into the box. Outside of that though, he kept Valencia fairly well contained on the right.
Carragher - 6 - I forgot him in my first post. Probably because he was that anonymous. That said, I do think he did a decent job of playing a holding mid. Let's actually be honest, it was more of a fifth defender playing just in front of Agger and Skrtel and he didn't look too comfortable. He got the job done and his work ensured few through balls for Welbeck to feed on.
Downing - 7 - He gets a 7 because he actually did very well in tracking back, it was a solid effort athat worked out well. He did put in a few decent crosses, but the more I watch Liverpool, the less I blame him. There simply aren't any bodies in the box for him to cross to. He again looked much livelier when he switched to the left side. Kenny, please take note of this...again.
Gerrard - 7 - I was shocked to see him subbed as he was one of the more effective players in setting up the counterattacks. He likely would have thrived once Scholes was out of the game. Either way, he did well to trying and collect the ball deep and push the team forward.
Henderson - 6 - I like what I am seeing from him. He hasn't been spectacular, but he shows up a few times a game with a moment of class. He and Carroll were superb at killing off the injury time down in the corner and he works his ass off, much of which I know flies under the radar. While his performances haven't been out of this world, the thing I like is I see improvement every game. He is young so I think he might actually mature into his role in a year or two, much like Lucas did.
Maxi -5 - One good shot early one. Other than that, he was wasteful and useless and looked like a lost puppy out there on the pitch.
Carroll (The first 80') - 4 - He was awful. Wasteful, lolloping and lazy. He didn't challenge United's back four and didn't put them under any pressure. His flicks were poor and straight to DeGea (which actually might not have been a bad idea to flick them at DeGea. Never know what he might do) and were completely wasted. It was further frustrating because many of the flicks were in situations where clearly no one would be running onto them. He failed to use his height or size and was beaten to far too many balls. It was bad.
Carroll (The final 10') - 8 - It was a superb flick onto Kuyt. Unlike earlier, the situation clearly warranted a flick and what a beauty it was. Then, brimming with confidence, he and Henderson collaborated to effectively run out all the injury time in the corner by the Kop. I hope to God this gives him the confidence he needs to go forward and be a productive member of this team. As pointed out in a comment by kennv, he also headed off the bar in this time.
SUBS:
Adam - 6 - He did a good job of shoring up the midfield, albeit when Scholes was off. He got his token dumb foul in and made a few nice passes. Not great, not bad.
Kuyt - 8 - The usual work rate and it paid dividends today. A brilliant run off of Carroll, and a sweet strike on the volley. I wasn't happy about him coming on, but I was proven wrong.
Bellamy - 7 - He was lively in his short cameo. Carroll, please take note and try to emulate for 90 minutes.
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Carroll and Kelly should probably get credit for being big and standing in front of the goal keeper without fouling in those opening crosses. Agger’s headed goal had him leaping and everyone else falling over in a scrum. Carroll also had his own header against the bar after the flick on assist.
Enrique looked tired.
I’d freakin’ love to see Kelly get more starts, whether he is at RM or if Johnson moves up or over to LB. They could even swap RM/RB during the game for tactical edges. I’d like to see the big lad attacking on corners.
Bye Travis and thanks for 2010! Good luck with the Brewers!
I'm just watching it now...
… So far (first half hour) I think you’re too harsh on Carroll. He shielded De Gea from the ball on Agger’s goal. He also had a great move — winning a header, flicking it over his shoulder into Gerrard’s path, then following it up with a great run that Gerrard should’ve picked up rather than shooting — to set up Gerrard for a great chance that Stevie spurned. A few other times he held up play and started an attack as well.
In any case he certainly doesn’t look lazy. He’s covering a lot of ground, and tracking back to defend when needed. He’s a bit isolated up top when LFC has 10 behind the ball, but that’s partially the fault of the midfielders not linking up all that well (other than Gerrard). Maxi in particular has been poor.
Not a world-beating performance, but certainly not a 4.
My thoughts exactly
and thought Gerrard had a less than strong game. He had good moments, but he wasted some chances and was far from his best.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I'll agree he was far from best
But he still makes things tick.
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
by Bromantic on Jan 28, 2012 8:48 PM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Just standing there is not much to give him credit on
To me that’s a stretch, but I think it is well established that we will always agree to disagree on many of Carroll’s performances.
Running around with no purpose or idea does not equal a quality performance. He easily could have cut out a pass by Smalling early on if he was just slowly lolloping around. Average out his scores he gets a 6 for the game.
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
Pass to who?
And it’s his fault no one was making runs on those earlier flicks?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
That is called situational awareness
When he is clearly the highest player and he flicks instead of controls or heads backwards then it is clear he isn’t aware of what is going on around him. That is key for any good player, to understand the game and his team.
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
by Bromantic on Jan 29, 2012 1:24 AM GMT via mobile up reply actions
Agree to disagree...
… perhaps we will, but look at these highlights of him today. He controlled the ball well, held up play well, linked with the midfield well, and initiated numerous attacks. It wasn’t an amazing performance, but come on it wasn’t ever a 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEqVChMQlag&feature=player_embedded#
So they could only come up with 2:07 minutes of action
where he played well in a 90 minute game. In addition about a minute of that video happend in the final parts of the game where I acknowledged his great play. You haven’t sold me. Sure, there were a few nice plays, but the penalty shout takes up about 15 seconds and for me is an example of poor play (i.e. not playing to the whistle).
Hell, the first play of the video is him losing out on a header.
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
I heard the commentator make this complaint (the Smalling pass) and thought it was an unfair criticism. Center forwards pick their running back spots versus their jogging back spots. All of them. They can’t chase every ball or sprint all of the time. Even amazing work ethic (Kuyt, or Gerrard when he gets forward) or crazy energy (Suarez or Bellamy) don’t sprint back to position every time there is a back pass to the goalie.
Bye Travis and thanks for 2010! Good luck with the Brewers!
Wrong...
By your standards, a 4 for the first 8/9ths of the game and an 8 for the final 1/9th averages out to a 4.4…which rounds down to a 4 overall. Period.
Personally, I think you clearly have an animus against Carroll, such that he has to play utterly out of his mind before you’ll grant him a grudging “that’ll do, pig.”
by regnaD kciN on Jan 29, 2012 11:52 PM GMT via iPhone app up reply actions
The averages were weighted in my opinion based on the importance of his final 10'
If I were to give him an overall grade it would have been a 6. If I need a lesson in sig figs and rounding I’ll be sure to let you know. Don’t wait by the phone though, I taught Math for four years.
I don’t need him to be fantastic. I need him to play well for as long as he is on the pitch. Bellamy showed what a quality lone striker performance looks like against City. If you think Carroll’s first 80’ was even close to half as good as Bellamy’s performance then you are delusional. If he had been half as good as Bellamy was at running the line alone, I would have given him a 6 for that period. I agree he is sometimes a victim of the formation and gets marooned up there with little support, but so did Bellamy and he did what he had to do to impose himself on the game.
Don’t believe me? Go to The Busby Babe, make a FanPost asking for their opinion of Carroll’s play. See what you get. Hell, do it at a couple other sites and see what happens. His runs are poor and predictable. I don’t expect perfection, but a couple of near post runs would be nice. He is misjudging balls, the biggest man on the pitch is routinely beaten for height on headers and muscled off the ball.
There are obviously two factions here on the site when it comes to Carroll. I think that you guys want him to be so good that you can’t see the negative, and perhaps I am so frustrated with him that I don’t see as much positive. I have absolutely no animosity or angst towards him. No fan would want their player to fail. That is an absurd argument. I want Carroll to succeed because if he is succeeding then Liverpool are succeeding, but it still isn’t happening yet. Period.
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
If you think Carroll will ever do what Bellamy does, you are delusional as well
they are very different in physical tools, so expecting Carroll to play like Bellamy or Suarez, harrassing with attack after attack with the ball at their feet, will leave you constantly disappointed. That’s not who he is, or how he’ll ever play.
If it weren’t for the knees, I thought having him and Bellamy would be a good pair for this game. He needed someone to be making runs alongside him with the flicks and other balls he was getting. Just someone else within 30 feet of him after they hoofed it forward. But he didn’t have that. He’s getting a little more comfortable out there from the looks of it. He’s not there yet, or anywhere close to being worth the price paid. But he’s improving, and I think a lot of us are hopeful, albeit pessimistic, that when Suarez returns, he can be the bully occupying space as #7 or Bells make runs around him, taking those flicks and heading for the goal.
Agreed though, he still has to improve his positioning, for headers, and for poaching when Suarez or Bells make their runs and have broken down the defense.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I actually only asked for half the effort of Bellamy
Bellamy’s effort was off the charts, but he RAN. That’s the key for me. Carroll lollops slowly towards whomever has the ball giving them too much time to make a decision. Bellamy runs to close them down quickly. Carroll is not that slow. He could do this and he looks about 10 pounds lighter than the beginning of the season so I’m assuming he is fitter (although his match fitness is a question). I would prefer he concentrate his efforts on doing that than dropping so deep like he is prone to do. Give 60 minutes of full throttle effort and then get subbed, that is what I want.
I agree 100% that he and Bellamy should start together. I actually just posted that on the Post Match reaction article. I hope Caroll can build on this. If he can, watch out world, here we come. If not though, it will be the same old story.
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
Bellamy...
… also only played for 15 minutes, so he could afford to go full-bore. Carroll likely knew that he had to finish the match. The fact that his last 10 minutes was his strongest is a good indication of both his fitness and the wisdom of having something left in the tank for the end. And I think he did a better job of closing down than you give him credit for. He’s a big lad so it looks like he’s lumbering about, but he actually covered a lot of ground.
According to AnfieldIndex, Carroll won 70% of aerial duels. Not amazing, but not abysmal for an offensive player either. Only 30% of crosses were accurate, which indicates that he (again) was getting poor service. Some of that may be poor positioning on his part, but if so than that can improve with time and experience and may be partially attributable to him not getting regular minutes with the team.
Carroll isn’t perfect. Not at all. But he’s still one of the most promising young players in the EPL. If we’d got him for 1mn GBP rather than 35mn GBP everyone would have all the patience in the world for him. But it’s not our money, so why let that color our judgment?
I wasn't talking about Bellamy's cameo in this game
I was referring to Bellamy’s performance against City as a lone striker.
If Carroll had cost 1m, I still would dread seeing his name on the teamsheet. This isn’t really about justifying his price which I don’t think he’ll ever be able to do. If he could justify half his price with his play then I would be happy.
I am most concerned with that stat you pointed out, the biggest man on the pitch only won 70% of his aerial battles. I don’t know how that is measured, but with his size, he should be winning 95% of them. I really do think there is something wrong with his ability to judge the ball though. But like I pointed out, his runs are not clever, he finds himself getting sucked too far in on crosses. It is much easier to run onto a cross rather than back up to get one, but he definitely gets sucked in too far.
There is another big lone striker that did hold up play, and there is no comparison. The striker I am referring to is Peter Crouch. Peter Crouch has more touch, uses his size much better and even he gangled (if that’s a word) around the pitch harassing the opposition defenders much more than Carroll does. He is/was a much better player than Carroll is now.
The thing is, strikers can’t take 4 years to mature into their role like a CM can like (Lucas). If we want CL footy next year, then our strikers have to produce now or we will be unable to attract the talent we need to round out this squad. Simply put, he has to produce much more right now. Fair or not, it is the way it is. Strikers need to score, or at least notch a few more assists than he is (although he has gotten better recently on that account).
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
From the game thread:
I’ve been a huge Carroll supporter, but he was fuckawful until about the 75th minute. Wasteful touches, dawdled on the ball almost every time he had it, and couldn’t generate a single damn useful thing.
It’s like the argument I’ve been having with USMNT fans about Jermaine Jones this past week: active does not equal good. just because you run around like a chicken with your head cut off doesn’t mean you’re being useful to the team, and Carroll certainly was not for most of this match.
and
His "activity" played him out of position a lot, and when he did get the ball, he f*cked around with it for several seconds before doing anything, and would usually play off a clumsy pass backwards instead of doing anything incisive with it. I counted eight touches in the first hour where he passed back instead of taking a clear opportunity to turn and run or send a through ball to an advancing team-mate. That’s unacceptable to me.
Bullpen Banter
Fan: Seattle Mariners, Seattle Sounders FC, Liverpool
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Jonjo?
Where has he been? With Gerrard back, Henderson playing well, Maxi getting some run, etc, I wonder if we loan him back to Blackpool. We certainly aren’t using him and reports sounded like he was doing pretty well for them when he was getting regular action.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Very good question
I guess we are keeping him for cover. But Spearing went out and he still didn’t get any action. I agree, he should be sent back.
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
by Bromantic on Jan 29, 2012 1:25 AM GMT via mobile up reply actions
I think he starts one soon.
Wolves probably. Just not “big match” ready. Going with proven vets.
Bye Travis and thanks for 2010! Good luck with the Brewers!
He could only go to Blackpool at this point
You can only play in registered matches for two teams in a given season, loans or otherwise.
Bullpen Banter
Fan: Seattle Mariners, Seattle Sounders FC, Liverpool
Twitter
I meant he starts for Liverpool versus the Wolves on Tuesday.
Bye Travis and thanks for 2010! Good luck with the Brewers!
Ah, thought you meant starts a loan soon.
Bullpen Banter
Fan: Seattle Mariners, Seattle Sounders FC, Liverpool
Twitter
Bromantic
Here are my TBB ratings for the United game
I have linked this article into mine too. Cheers mate (Can’t wait untill we get Nani and Rooney and Rio and and Cleverley back. Anderson too… Jones…… You can have Suarez….. As the great Delia Smith said, LETS BE AVIN YAAAA)
The link didn't work so I'll post it
For Sweet Science’s take on the performance by the Man U players at The Busby Babe click here
"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they don't know the game" -Bill Shankly
It didn't work because I forgot to link it.....
What a plank!
by Sweet science on Jan 29, 2012 4:14 PM GMT up reply actions
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